Show & Tell - OTEP, an interview with Otep

THE MOST DIFFICULT PART OF SPEAKING TO HER...
IS HAVING TO STOP

otep, 02.20.05
part I

Interviews with Otep always go well (and that'd be a reflection of the interviewee more so than the interviewer). Despite some social anxieties (yeh, like you don't have any?), she's a natural conversationalist. She's intelligent, well-read and well-spoken and when she's talking about topics that excite her, her enthusiasm leapfrogs the tape recorder and infects you.

Truthfully the most difficult part of speaking to her is having to stop.

We've broken this interview up into two parts for several reasons. One, it's long. Two, there's a very natural break where we switch gears from talking about Otep to talking about politics.

On to Part I...

S&T: You got a new guitar player…

Otep: We got a new guitar player. Lee didn't work out, he had other things… Touring's hard on people, it's a special breed that makes up a touring soldier.

S&T: Was that his first national (tour) last time around?

Otep: He had done it a long time ago with another band. He didn't… he wasn't the right fit, y'know, he just wasn't the right fit for us. So... we're still friends and everything's cool. He's doing what he wants to do. New guitar player's name is Scotty and he was actually our tech for the last tour. Guy's an amazing player and he fills in the void for what we needed.

What we do is very unique, y'know, and the message we communicate is very unique and for me it requires very special, unique people. And trying to find people that are in this for all of the right reasons is difficult and has been difficult. And it's not surprising to me that it is difficult to locate people who want to be artists for the sake of creating art; to be a musician for the sake of creating music. You have this whole culture of musicians whose objective is to become famous and maintain celebrity and get girls and drink a lot and party and all that, when to me that's not what this is about, it never was and there's a thousand, two thousands, three thousand, thousands of other bands out there that do exactly that. So, go be in that band. Don't be in this band; this band stands for something a little bit different and that's what it requires. It requires a lot of hard work, it requires appreciation for the opportunity that we have, that a lot of bands get and then they blow because they think that they've made it and all of a sudden their little glam hair metal, whatever fantasy that they think is still possible is available to them. So they dishonor the muses, they dishonor creativity and that's not what we're about. And we'll never be that. And we'll just keep doing what we do and keep writing records and keep having amazing performances and keep evolving. At this point it would be nice to, I hope this lineup works out, I like everybody in it. I said that last time...

S&T: You'd said it to me, last year at Ozzfest, you'd said, “This is a good group.”

Otep: In the beginning, yeah, I did and… We'd come from this sort of turbulent time prior to that and people were angry and everyone was mad and some of the musicians, who are no longer with us, wanted to write a pop record and they wanted to do this, that and the other. They didn't want to work and they'd only show up for couple of hours and that's just not the kind of work ethic that I think is important for what we offer people and for what they give us back, for someone to come, especially now in this economy. For someone to come and pay fifteen, sixteen or twenty dollars to see one show. You can't take anything from that except for performance. That's a huge debt, that's a huge debt that we as performers owe. We owe them everything. We owe them to give them the best performance that we can. Everyone has worked so hard to spend $20 on a ticket, that's a lot of money, $20. So I think that's very important and again I'd like to see the lineup, this lineup, remain. If it doesn't, something else will happen, we'll get somebody else. I started the project, I started this band for specific reasons, to communicate a message, to fight a lot of battles and slay a lot of demons and cleanse myself of a lot of things that were uninvited.

S&T: How's that working out for you?

Otep: It's working out well. I mean really well. And they're still there, they never go away. They can't, its part of you. They become part of you. It's like your shadow and your shadow never really leaves you.

S&T: I see a shift in you every time. Every time I sit down with you, I see a shift.

Otep: Yeah?

S&T: Yeah.

Otep: What I am hoping to achieve is to master these things, these evils so that they now become tools for me versus, I guess, the contrast, me being the weapons for them. And so that's what I'm hoping to master, that's what I hope to conjure up. I'm hoping eventually to have proven that Art does save.

S&T: Do you think there's a destination?

Otep: Yeah, there's a destination but it's the journey that counts, as they say. I hope I never arrive because once I do it's over and then everything is done.

S&T: Because you talk about it being the process and not the product anyway. You talk about how being on the road is not just the travel but the idea of being out here, the process of creating. The people that come out with you need to believe in…

Otep: They have to believe in what we stand for.

S&T: In the ritual not just…

Otep: "I want a gig…"

S&T: "What's on the rider..."

Otep: That's right, no absolutely, that's what I have to explain to people that do come into the band. “I don't know what you think, but this is a message driven band, this is something we live. We don't pretend, it's not something that you turn off just because we're not on stage anymore or not because we are not writing records anymore. You have to believe in what this band stands for, in the messages that it's communicating and otherwise why are you here? If you are as good as you think you are, then you can get in another band. There are lots of bands that need drummers and guitar players or whatever.” So this is a band that was formed around an idea. And that idea will be protected; that's the nucleus, that's the foundation. So yes, it is more about the process. It's about understanding that offstage that shouldn't be as much different as what's onstage. It's who you are, you should become an artist. I can't remain emotionally active, I suppose, as I am onstage all the time, I can't. But it is we're playing six times a week for seven weeks, roughly forty shows in forty-nine days. So harboring all these emotions inside of me every single day is a little bit difficult.

S&T: Exhausting I would think.

Otep: Oh, mentally, physically, spiritually, you bet. So harboring it, you have to look at it like, “Am I crazy, am I insane for enduring this night after night?” Because the schedule is you wake up, you get dressed and you go into your moment. You find those places, you release the energy, you come back to the bus, you wind everything back down, you get up the next day and do it again. So the mental preparation is probably the most exhausting. I'm not complaining, that's part of what we do, that's what we signed on for and it's a dream to have but it's not everyone is cut out for it. Luckily I'm built for it. Pushing the barriers of all human endurance absolutely on this one but the fans make it worthwhile. To see them sometimes I forget the emotions that we conjure from people that we allow them to feel free. I got an email from a girl who said, she's working now, she's out of school, she is on her own. She's always felt weak and like she didn't matter and that she wasn't a strong person but she came to our show and was inspired enough from what we do to jump in. This person who is in isolation for the most part maybe some social anxieties or something, that doesn't feel like she's a part of anything suddenly felt like she was a part of something. She jumped in the pit and wasn't afraid anymore of being hurt, wasn't afraid of someone attacking her, wasn't afraid of being hit. She was hitting back. They were pushing, she was pushing back and she said it changed her life, 60, 75 minutes show changed her life, one show. And that's what matters, and that's what makes it great.

S&T: And are you finally owning that because that's an issue that I have with you and your low self-esteem over there, that for some reason you don't seem to own those moments and know that somebody else didn't bring it to them. You did.

Otep: It's hard for me to… What I do with my music, what we do with our music I think, yes, is helping people and that's what matters the most. It's not the fame or the notoriety or money or whatever. Those moments for me especially because I was that person, I was that girl, I was and still am, I still have some weird social things I can't get over, I just can't. I'm trying but I still have problems with it, but because I know when people extend compliments to me it's a bit difficult for me to accept them. I don't value myself on anything other than my work ethic.

S&T: And that's my issue.

Otep: That's my thing. I don't value myself based on anything other than my work ethic and I think that in the end that's all I'm gonna have, is how hard I worked and what I can leave behind and that's all that I've got. The rest of it is two-dimensional, it doesn't matter. And so in that, it's like knowing that people are being changed by our music and are opening up to themselves. That's self-discovery and that's great. I wish I had had that and now I guess I do in some weird way. The fans give it back. They give to me what I give to them and they're anonymous, we're strangers because we don't know each other but in those moments, life is changing and that's good.

S&T: I spent some time on your message board, and one of the things that I noticed is where you had always seemed very guarded about your personal life, of late you seem to be more generous with details; with the tales about family and…

Otep: Well, in some respects I guess, yes I have, but I don't know necessarily how much other than I mean I can only be asked a thousand times the same question over and over again before I start to feel like I don't understand why it matters to you about anything other than here is the facts; I was raised in a shitty place, I don't want to recognize it, I don't want to give it any props, I don't want to give it any do. I don't want to do that. I have received weird threats and things like that against my family. I've got… there are people involved that I am afraid that I am going to have them involved. So I don't talk about that, that's separate, I need something that's mine. I wasn't raised for notoriety, I wasn't raised for anything like this. So I don't understand it and I don't like… I am a private person, always have been even with the people that are closest to me, I'm still a very private person. I need things to be mine, I need certain things to be mine and I don't feel like it's that important that people know every detail, aspect there is to know about me when I don't know very much about me anyway. And in respect to… my brother died in 2001, I was open about that so I'm open about certain things. There are other things that I don't think that are necessary and I think they're just silly and I don't think they're necessary. Playing our music, being a fan of our music has nothing to do with what size shoe I wear and what's my favorite food, or any of that shit.

S&T: I think the problem is in the climate today. I don't know how you people do it, musicians in general. Trying to maintain some semblance of privacy but at the same time maximum accessibility because the fans, they've got to know. Some musicians don't even go on their message boards; you go, you interact and you talk with these fans and every piece, every inch that you give them, there's an expectation that there'll be more…

Otep: And that's why, there was a time when I actually left the boards for awhile. I left the forum because it started becoming, the demands on the band and on us were becoming just a little absurd and that's not why I started it… I was almost thinking of closing it down for a minute… This was a while ago, a long time ago, couple years. I enjoy interacting with the fans, I enjoy making them feel like they're part of a community because it makes me feel like I'm a part of a community. And I want them to feel sort of that connection that is there between people who have had similar experiences regardless of where you're from, what family you were born into, what side of the tracks you were raised on, what color you are, what gender, what religion, whatever. That we can celebrate uniqueness, we can celebrate art through this wonderful medium of the Internet. The issue is privacy, though, and it is difficult. I mean if I want to go to the store sometimes and someone will say, “Hey, aren't you in that band?” Yeah, I am. “Can I get an autograph?” Sure, okay. “And, hey! Can I take a picture with you?” And it's like I just came to get some soy milk. But that's always been around. People have always been sort of crazed like that. When they support you, they support you and you should be very grateful for that and I am and I am very grateful, I hate to hear whiney stars or whatever. People have no right to do that and are mean to their fans. I am always trying to be here giving to them but I just wished that they could understand as well that there should be some, that the respect there should be like, you know, give me something. I mean the other night we were just finished, you know it's forty below whatever it is, I mean it is so cold here. I'm from Los Angeles, I mean this is insane weather and there were so many fans, they wouldn't let me on the bus, they were just blocking my way because they wanted pictures. I just came offstage, I'm soaking wet, icicles are forming in my hair and I've got to protect my throat because (I'm performing) six nights a week, just give me 5 minutes guys, I have just come off...

S&T: Let me put a hoodie on or something.

Otep: Let me dry my hair, let me take a breath, I have just done for one hour, I have just gone through, relived my entire life for you in an hour, I have given you an experience that I know is nightmarish but I know is also a celebration of survival and empowering for me as well shedding skin and regrowing a new one, rising from the ashes, all these great metaphors. But I do need that downtime because it is real for me, it really is and so I always put notes down because these people are so angry that I wouldn't come out after the show and hang out. Well I didn't just sit up there and do an acoustic jam and sing gospel songs or something. I mean I just did something that is very emotionally difficult for me and I do need that, that's my time now, I will claim that so…

S&T: I've seen it. I've seen fans waiting for musicians all pissed off and they start yelling at the bus. With all due respect, you already got what you paid for. The band doesn't actually owe you any more than what you already got.

Otep: We were in Nebraska, this little tiny club, in a bowling alley.

S&T: In a bowling alley?

Otep: Yeah, there's a bowling alley and then there's a club that's attached and we're in there and I'm standing there and I go up to the crowd and I am giving them respect and cheering them on, I am hyping them up before the show and everything, thanking them for coming and then out of nowhere like this group of guys just start trying to grab my shirt, they're reaching up, they're punching me in the crotch, just like, they're grabbing my breasts. I can't see…

S&T: Where's security?

Otep: There's no security. There's no nothing and the musicians can't see what's going on. I'm pushing them off, I'm fighting them off. Dude, you paid $13 and what do you think that guarantees you? That you can molest me, I mean I ended up slapping, I ended up striking one guy and I took another guy's glasses because I couldn't tell which one of them it was. What I mean those are the things its just like, number 1, this genre of music, their obvious idea of what a women is supposed to be used for because I don't see them going after my bass player, who's 6 foot 4. I don't see them doing that to the other guys on this tour either. I guess they wouldn't but the point is why I am subject to that just because I'm a woman. It's ridiculous, it's absurd and I am supposed to call these people my peers. I'm supposed to call these people my fans. This is my fan base? These are my supporters? When I go in the back rooms of all these clubs and there's like homophobic bullshit written everywhere, poorly drawn penises…

S&T: (laughs) Not just penises but poorly drawn ones.

Otep: I mean poorly drawn, put some detail into it. There's just like really juvenile ass jokes everywhere and who fucked who and something about a girl and women and vaginas all over the place… It's like for me I thought I was going to reach, I was going to be surrounded by people who, I had a very naïve and I guess false understanding of what art and stepping into this world. I didn't know I was going to be stepping into a frat party. I didn't think I was going to be stepping into… men who never grew past the age of thirteen. That's where they stayed and that's where they've been and that's where they remain and that's what they are still trying to do that whole fantasy of gaining that 13 year old (has); of the girl, the fame and the popularity and all that shit and to me that's weak. I have a real hard time with weakness and accepting it... I don't. So, for me to see what the fans expect of me and what I give, there are certain times I have to just draw the line and say, look I have done it. Some people get mad at me, “Well, you responded to his email but you didn't respond to mine.” Well his email was about, maybe one guy is writing me from Iraq and your email is going, “You're wicked badass, thanks for the show.” I can't, there's a lot of those and I'm not disrespecting anybody but I just physically don't have the time to sit and reply to every email. If people send me emails and they're interesting, about some occult research or something, I may send them a link to a website, I may not type them an entire paragraph. I mean we have set a pretty good standard for bands and how we interact with our fans.

S&T: You are going to have more and more to deal with as you get bigger because there's an ownership issue with fans and bands and it's unavoidable.

Otep: And I understand that and that is part of what we do but it's also, I think, up to do the bands themselves to draw a line somewhere and say, "Okay guys, this is the moat that you shall not cross and we are going to wall ourselves up for awhile. Once we're ready we'll let the drawbridge down and let you back in but there has to be some sense." You know, even living on a bus for seven weeks and you're surrounded by the same people everyday and we all get along really well but there's very little privacy, there (are few opportunities) where you can just take a moment for yourself and have some quiet time. And then you go out onstage and everyone is there and they want, they want, they want and they're, “Feed me, feed me, feed me.” So I don't think its unreasonable for bands and musicians to kinda sometimes say, “Hey, leave this for me, please. I need this. This is mine. I just need it. Especially for me, I'm just like that. That's how I'm wired.

S&T: Whattya have, tea [ed.'s note: Obviously referring to the drink she has just taken]?

Otep: Yeah, a little throat coat. Echinacea. Yeah, my throat's been holding up exceptionally well this time around.

S&T: How many shows in are you?

Otep: We're six on a six day run today.

S&T: Day off tomorrow?

Otep: One day off and seven in a row and then two days off…

S&T: The driving's not bad [ed.'s note: Referring to the distance between clubs, the tour was plotted well].

Otep: No, and we don't care about that. The driving actually helps me sleep.

S&T: Does it?

Otep: Yeah, just the constant vibration…

S&T: The movement.

Otep: Yeah. And then you get used to it, the generator, you get used to that sound, that whirring sound. Like our generator kicked off the other night and that means the heaters don't work so we're freezing. And it's just quiet.

S&T: Too quiet?

Otep: Like prison quiet. Somebody's sharpening toothbrushes on the ground over here (laughter), “Something's about to go down.”

S&T: Too quiet. That's not good because you can hear what's going on in your head, that's not good.

Otep: And that's sometimes really bad. I've been having some pretty bizarre dreams. I wrote them all down they're actually fantastic literature. Some great writing and it's like, if I sent this to someone in Vienna (laughs), like a university or something doing psychological studies, they would go, it will be probably like, “She's out of here.”

S&T: (laughs) “She's gotta go. Take her out of society now!”

Otep: “Lock her up.” It was great, it was a fantastic little voyage but….

S&T: You wake up in the middle of the night and throw on a flashlight and start writing them down or do they keep ‘til morning?

Otep: It depends, sometimes I wake up and I have written things down that I don't remember.

S&T: That's the best.

Otep: Yeah, the other night I woke up and I was laying there with my pen and… I'm not a boozer. I mean I don't drink myself to sleep or anything, I just go to sleep, I'm not a big partier. But sometimes, I'll wake up and there will be an idea or something, and I'll just try to write it down while I'm sleeping. I'll wake up with my books in my hand; I don't know, my pen's like on my face or something.

S&T: You ever… I do this, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and I'll write something down and I will get up next morning and it doesn't even look like words and its just like…

Otep: Yeah, oh yeah.

S&T: And I'll be like, “Damn, I know this was brilliant last night! What the hell was it?”

Otep: Oh no, I know. I did that with a song once. I was like, I thought, “This is great and it's the line that I've been waiting to finish,” and that's the writers. That's the things, its just the last phrase that makes the piece perfect and that's what you want and I looked at it and there's this one word that looks like all Ws and I had no idea what the fuck that is. I was like killing myself over it and I still don't... No, if I have something like that, I'll try my best to sort of put it in a place that I know that I can store it and I can access it. Maybe I won't remember the next day, but a few days down the road when I am back. I've been doing a lot of writing on this tour, which I usually do anyway, but it's really exceptional stuff I think on this tour, short stories and stuff this time and I'm pretty happy that I'm expanding into that, haven't done that in a long time. I used to but since the band started most of my writing is always either been poetry or songs or some ranting on my journal.

S&T: How is your sense of humor? You have a good sense of humor [ed.'s note: No, this isn't a question our of nowhere, there's a dropout in the tape as she refers to humor in writing]?

Otep: I actually have, I'm pretty funny that's one of the things people don't know about me. I actually have a really good sense of humor. It only comes out once in rare moments around certain people… It's my comfort level. When I'm comfortable around people I can be a little bit…

S&T: So, 5 years from now say 2 interviews a year, I might get you to crack a joke?

Otep: You might, yeah. I may give you a zinger.

S&T: I'll keep my ears peeled for that.

interview by scott sisti