Show & Tell - interview with James Black of Finger Eleven

JAMES BLACK of FINGER ELEVEN
Irving Plaza, NYC, NY
04.25.03

Finger Eleven... finally.

We'd been fans of theirs for years but had never had the opportunity to see them play live let alone sit with them to talk about their music.

With their third album in the can [the self-titled "Finger Eleven" on Wind-Up Records], we managed to get the drop on them the second they hit town. Our expectations were pretty high. You should know that they not only met those expectations, they exceeded them.

If you haven't heard them I can't help you... I couldn't pigeon-hole this band if I tried. I can't explain what they sound like by comparing them to somebody else. I can't tell you they're a cross between "them" and "them."

Very simply they don't sound like anybody else out there.

In a time when there's more new music than ever before, there's actually less variety than ever before. The sheer number of bands that sound exactly like other bands boggles the mind and hurts the ears.

If listening to the radio today is like being stuck on a long flight breathing the same recirculated air for eight hours then Finger Eleven is that first breath you take outside the terminal.

Though I have some issues with the new album [specifically the production work of Johnny K, not the actual music], the band's songs continue to amaze me in their originality and freshness.

Based out of Southern Ontario, the quintet [whose name does NOT mean "penis"] consists of singer Scott Anderson, his brother Sean on bass, guitarists James Black and Rick Jackett, and drummer Rich Beddoe.

Irving Plaza, NYC.

Their set is just a few hours away, sandwiched between openers Depswa and headliner Cold. We sat with James and talked about the new record.

Show & Tell: So the album drops 17th of June?

James: Yes.

S&T: Its your third album but you self-titled it, that's kind of an interesting choice.

J: I think we really felt when we finished it that we really caught the band on tape the way it should be.

S&T: Even moreso than the last album?

J: Yeh, I think so. We tried a different approach on this record. The last record we really obsessed over trying to make it sound perfect. As tight and clinical as possible. This time we just thought, "okay, well, we're a good live band so we can probably get away with just playing, concentrating on getting the ideas out instead of trying to make it sound so perfect."

So this record is like all five of us getting out exactly what'd been intended.

S&T: So its a little more raw?

J: Yeh, I would say, yeh. We went for performances, we recorded the guitars together at the same time. There's like, when you're playing together and something sounds really good, your sounds are interacting, the way you're playing is interacting so if one take sounds really good, maybe both the takes weren't perfect but together they sound really good.

S&T: You actually recorded both guitar tracks at the same time?

J: Yeh. Just to try to keep that feel. We were really trying to catch the energy of the band live. I think just the simplicity of it, the bare bones of it. That's kind of why we chose to self title it too. We're not really hiding behind anything on this record.

S&T: I read an interview back in '01 where someone asked "what's up for 2001?" and you answered "new album." That was two years ago. Have you guys been working on this thing the whole time? Have you taken time off?

J: We took some time off from the road but we were getting together like five days a week writing for probably a year... and then there was some sporadic touring and stuff. Overall we had about a year and a half to write.

At the time we were getting impatient but looking back its probably best we had that much time to write. You can't help but evolve when you write so much stuff. We ended up writing like 30 songs.

S&T: If you write for that long, you're in a totally different place when you finish from when you started.

J: Yeh, definitely.

S&T: How does that affect...

J: The first stuff that you write is kind of like reminiscient of the tail end of the last record. You're still kind of outgrowing that phase. It took us a couple songs, maybe five or six songs, to realize what we were going for on this record, what we were evolving into. So you have the benefit of that, of like getting out the early stuff that's left over from the last record and then just concentrating on something totally new. Because that's really something as a band we want to do every time, reinvent, do something we haven't done before. When you get a chance to write a lotta stuff you start to try anything because you can't help but run out of ideas for a certain formula so you start trying anything. That's kinda what helps it to be new.

S&T: Does the writing process remain the same or does that change?

J: No, this one was a little more like a community, like we'd jam in the room together more. I would have some ideas but they were only ideas, they weren't really songs but they became songs when we all got together and started playing.

S&T: The last album has a intended cohesion from start to finish. Is it the same here or is this more a collection of songs?

J: I think we spend a lot of time putting it in the right order, making it flow and having it make sense. Like any one song taken out of context, you're not really gonna get an idea of what the new record's gonna be like. We spent a lot of time trying to make it feel like a record.

S&T: I was trying to pinpoint exactly what it is about your music that grabs me and finally I listened to it with headphones and got it. Its that there's a suprise in every song. Every time I think I know where you're going this way all of a sudden you change it. Just little surprises here and there. Are they lucky accidents, are they intentional?

J: I think part of it comes from we get bored pretty easily and we're our own worst critic so if we start to rehash an idea or stretch something out too long we just pull the plug on it, like, "okay, we've gotta do something interesting otherwise it gets boring." I think there's a lot of music that's out right now that seems like you take the verse and use that as your experimental area and the chorus has to be a big fat chord or something like that. And we're sorta like the opposite. Not really the opposite but we felt like the choruses could musically be the coolest part of the song as well as with a kick ass vocal over top of it. And I think that's why Zeppelin is so amazing, Pink Floyd, The Beatles. They never just went, "okay its time for the chorus."

We write the music first before there's any vocals and then we'll give it to Scott (Anderson) after we record like a fairly decent demo of it. Because we jam, it's loud, he waits for us to finish. So we're trying to make choruses without vocals. It's like lets make a really catchy piece of music that could withstand without vocals and then once you have vocals on top of it...

S&T: Right. Lyrically its all Scott?

J: Yeh, on this record, yeh.

S&T: The last album talked a lot about relationships. The first album as well. Is there a theme to this one, same theme?

J: We're all kind of losing the desire to scream in everybody's face all the time but I think its still really about relationships. There's really not much else to life except for relationships and what happens to you in your relationships.

Lyrically its probably, not mellower, but its coming from a different place, we're not hiding behind any kind of great rage.

The recording process on this record was definitely a little different.

S&T: In terms of pushing the vocals?

J: No, as far as singing from beginning to end, just do a bunch of takes. The last record was a little more clinical about how we recorded. We wanted everything to be perfectly in pitch. On this record we kind of just said, "let's everyone just do the best that they can, we know it works live."

S&T: So would you actually take a whole vocal track, just one run-through and use it or would you still chop it up?

J: We still chopped it up but the escalation, the emotion from start to finish, he can't help but be more into it by the end of the song...

S&T: Right, you're doing the whole song instead of pieces.

J: Its kind of hard to just go and punch in at the last chorus, which is supposed to be the brink of everything, just jump right in.

Since he's been singing the whole song its got a natural dynamic to it and I think that was something we really needed on this record.

S&T: That was always interesting to me to be like, "okay, now we're three minutes into the song, belt out... pick it up from here." And I would think but it takes a minute and a half to get there, how do you just pick it up there on demand?

J: Yeh, exactly.

S&T: Production value still up there like the last album? The last album was clean.

J: Yeh, its crisp but its a lot more natural... Mistakes, noise and stuff.

S&T: I like the subtle stuff that goes on, little layers and textures and stuff. Is that something you still do?

J: There's still a lot of little sound bytes but we tried to keep it a little simpler. Sometimes you can even hide behind that stuff. If the songs aren't as good as they should be you tend to overcompensate with production. We felt really strongly about the songs so we were pretty minimal. There's still a lot of stuff, you're gonna hear stuff with headphones.

S&T: This seems to be a theme with us these days but the third album is usually a marker album.

J: I think what happens is as you make records you learn what you don't want to do on the next record. You never really learn what you want to do [you] just learn what you don't want to do.

I think the third record is always good because you're still hungry but you've got a couple behind you so you know you don't want to do this, don't want to do that.

It must be something about where bands are at that stage. They've been together long enough that they know what they're all about but they're kind of at that point where they don't really listen to anybody's else opinions.

Plus the age, you actually start to grow up.

S&T: Plus you have your entire life to make that first album, then you have to pump out the second and by the third you know how the whole process fits together.

J: I think some bands have a little more pressure on their third record, especially if you haven't had huge success with the first two, like you're going, "okay, last chance." We kinda felt that pressure but in the opposite way. Where some people would go into their third record thinking this is their last chance for success or we won't be around, we were like, "if we don't have success it better be fucking amazing because that's the only thing that's gonna be left after all this."

In the ashes of our careers there will only be the records that are left.

S&T: You guys are in the great position of being with one of the few labels left that actually nurtures bands and wants to grow a band rather than, "if you guys don't hit, you're done..."

J: Exactly. They're very trusting of us too I think. We have a really good relationship with them and they're not really into interfering with the recording. I've heard some nightmare stories what some bands go through, labels have a lot of opinions.

I think our band doesn't thrive under that kind of pressure. We would sound bad if we had that kind of, someone over our shoulder. Nobody would be happy with it.

S&T: You seem like a relaxed group of guys. Must be a Canadian thing, we're way too wound up down here.

J: This city [New York City], I'd be on the edge if I was here for a week. I think it probably is a cultural thing, we're a little bit more laid back back home.

S&T: What's the difference between Canadian fans and American fans?

J: Not much. They're both great.

S&T: The web site... there's news and stuff that's up to date but there's a lot of stuff that's left over from the last album. I thought the studio journals you did were excellent.

J: Cool. I've kind of been slipping on that because I haven't been online as much. I don't know why, it was new to me, I was online all the time. With this record we were living in the same building as the studio, it was like 24 hours a day recording... We lived in this 10,000 square foot loft in Chicago. Johnny K has the top floor of this building; studio, a loft and his apartment all on the same floor. There wasn't a lot of time to go online it was always recording or trying to turn your brain off.

S&T: How long were you there for?

J: It was about two months.

S&T: Tell me about the artwork. The artwork on the second album was pretty much all you.

J: I did it all originally in black and white and then came across this guy's web site, Jeff Barber. He had this cool multimedia thing. It was like newspaper clippings and paint all mixed together and I was intrigued so I wrote him a letter, "I have this idea and I just want somebody to paint it up. It totally worked out, it was cool."

This record I had an idea and I was determined I was going to do it all myself so during the recording process I worked on the artwork as well. I'm excited about it. It came out good, I'm excited about it.

S&T: So you've got about a month 'til the record comes out. Has the press circus started yet, are we just starting to trickle in now?

J: Its just slowly starting, I've got to figure out how to use my tongue again. You kind of get in that mode of being able to answer questions well and then you lose it after being off for awhile. Being around your buddies for a year and a half its like you don't even need to talk sometimes, like shorthand or something.

S&T: What would be the one question that nobody asks that you wish they would?

J: I always feel like I want these interviews to be like, "let's talk in-depth about music and art and what it means," but when those kinds of questions come up you realize nobody really wants to sit and listen to this, its like reading a text book.

Its insane to try to talk about music to begin with really. Its just an undescribable thing, even the whole process of making it, you can describe it but you never really understand the idea of being in a room with silence and then two hours later there's a song there.

S&T: Making something from nothing. I can relate to it as a painter, staring at a blank canvas...

J: The intimidation of painting, I can't even begin to describe that.

S&T: I usually just put something on there. Have a blank canvas? Just make a mark, putting something on there so its not all big and white and scary anymore.

J: Same thing with music. You can't wait to just plug in and make some sort of sound. You know you're gonna go through some shitty stuff first for the first half an hour so you just wanna get started and get over with.

S&T: What would be the one question you're sick of?

J: What our name means... That's probably the only question that we could do without.

S&T: Do you get it every time?

J: Yeh, usually.

S&T: Are you ever like, "read the bio."

J: Maybe its our fault 'cause we keep saying what it means in our bio maybe people are like, "oh, they must want to talk about it." Maybe if we don't mention the name...

Finger Eleven.

Mention the name.

interview by scott sisti